Questions about rhodiola for anxiety/stress

[jlogan]

Hi Shelley,
I don't know if you know much about rhodiola...it's an herbal supplement that has recently gained in popularity. I have a question related to an unexpected reaction to it. I bought Oregon Wild Harvest's brand of rhodiola from my local co-op the other day. I have chronic stress/anxiety problems, and I'm at my wit's end about what to do about it. I figured I should try this stuff. Anyways, the bottle says to take it in the morning on an empty stomach. I did, and then I threw up about 30 minutes later!! I'm still nauseous a couple hours later. I have found nothing online about anyone ever having this reaction and frankly I'm a little bugged because I don't want to be puking every morning. Is it possible it's just a case of me having a weak stomach or could there be more to it? I know that one of its mechanisms of actions is to regulate neurotransmitters (serotonin being a big one there, of course). I take Zoloft...I'm guessing though if the 2 are interacting that I'd have thmore symptoms other then puking though. I'm just curious to know if you'd ever heard of anything like this....thanks!

[shelley]

Any time you throw up it means the dosage is too strong. When the body gets something that is powerful and decides it's too much, it purges to save you from possible poisoning/overdose. Sometimes the seller doesn't prepare the herb correctly and it's too contaminated.

How strong was the dose you took?

Rhodiola is one of the strongest adaptogenic herbs. I find people do just fine with Gotu Kola. It's strong but steady. Planetary Formulas has a blend of adaptogenics that I find very safe, strong but safe.

I don't think I have anything in the FAQ for anxiety yet. Oops. Here's my usual recommendations for anxiety and stress disorders:

-Cut out all drama from your life. Be ruthless. Be healthy-selfish about it.
-Take Calcium, preferably as Cal-Mag Zinc or Cal-Mag Fizz, about 500 mg a day, once or twice a day apart from meals, one right before bed.
-Take adaptogenic herbs: Gotu Kola, Astralagus, Ginseng (all kinds), Licorice.
-Reduce salt.
-Eat lots of turkey or take Tryptophan and Taurine supplements.
-Take about 60 mg of Co-Enzyme Q10 a day until the bottle runs out.
-Don't overdose on the B vits but get adaquate PABA.
-Go to bed at the same time every night.
-Avoid allergans. Eat a sane, reduced-sugar diet with adequate protein but not too much (no insane Atkins dieting).

Hope that helps!

[jlogan]

What is the name of the Planetary Herbals product? I might try it.
The dose of rhodiola was about 450mg. I thought it was on the low end as far as dosage goes, but I guess not

[shelley]

Not sure what the safe dosage is, the stuff I read didn't go by mg's.

Unfortunately, I think Planetary Formula's has stopped making that particular mix, darnit, I just went looking for it on Amazon and didn't find it. But you can easily find other versions of it, or make your own from individual tinctures found at the health food store. Gotu Kola is the bomb, but adaptogenics work best in combination so any of the others you can find would also be good. I'll list the herbs in order of importance:

Gotu Kola
Astralagus
Ginsing
Ashwaghanda
Licorice

[jlogan]

Thanks for your reply! Sorry for taking so long to respond, I've been busy with getting married and getting a new job!
I did find a supplement through my local co-op that I really, really like. It's Dr. Tori Hudson's Adrenal Assist. I also have a tea that has gotu kola in it that I drink at nighttime. Here are the ingredients for the supplement:

Rhodiola rosea extract ( 3% rosavins, 1% salidroside)
Astragalus root
Maca 125 mg
Ashwagandha extract (3.5% withanolides)
Holy basil leaf extract (2.5% ursolic acid)
Panax Ginseng extract (10% ginsenosides)
Schizandra berry 75 mg
Eleutherococo0cus Senticosus(20:1)
It seems to really be working. I have been taking it for about 3 weeks now, and I've started noticing some interesting differences. I can relax now, but I am the grumpiest, most short-tempered thing ever! In the past, I've experienced this (when I started Zoloft a year ago) and it was followed by feeling more balanced and relaxed. I also have noticed some weird pains around the lower back area (right around the kidneys). This is the area the grumpy feelings are radiating from. The pain is a combination of physical and psychological. It almost feels like something there is really damaged. I'm a bit concerned about this and I'm hoping that this just means that my adrenals are healing. I have been sleeping deeper, and having much more vivid dreams (my husband says I've been talking and kicking a lot during sleep and I've had so much trouble with actually waking from a dream). Hopefully these are all just signs that my poor body is healing! What do you think?

Also, for everyone out there with chronic vaginal yeast infections...an EXCELLENT brand that I've found that produces a wide variety of products is the Yeast-Gard brand. They do suppositories, douches, and supplements. They are homeopathic and are supposedly based in lactic acid cultures. They have worked so well for me. Also...boric acid suppositories work well. Compounding pharmacies make them and you can also make them yourself. I'm a pharmacy technician (yes, I work for evile pharmaceutical companies...lol you'd actually be surprised though how many people ask us about herbals! I'm a big assset to my pharmacy because I am into natural medicine) so I'm usually able to order a huge bottle of the stuff and some gelatin capsules and make my own. You can try asking your local pharmacy about it as well.

[shelley]

oh my, congrats!

That sounds like an excellent herbal combo. Just keep on the lookout for estrogenic type symptoms and if they start up, stop and switch to just Bieler Broth and a regular schedule (very important) of early to bed, early to rise.

I've had Gotu Kola make me feel like I've been socked in the kidneys. It's very strange. Not sure what to make of it, and considering I am actually kidney-impaired I put it down to that, or diuretic qualities. But it could be an indication that one kidney is stronger than the other, OR that you have a potassium/zinc sensitivity (actual true cause of sciatica are mineral pair ratio imbalances). Is the sensation more dominant on one side than the other?

Dreaming more is quite common when taking B vits and increasing one's circulation of cleaner blood. B6 is one of the chemicals necessary for vivid and lucid dreaming.

You can analyze your family history, diet and past lifestyle and see if anything there could have weakened the kidneys or indicate that you have weak kidneys regardless. Any binges on salts, chocolate, copper pipes, or back injuries in the right area, can do things that hurt the kidneys, or chronic dehydration. Severe mineral and EFA defeciencies too. All that blather about not eating salts or fats kills a lot of people, believe it or not. Margarine does no one any good. Real is better, even if saturated.

If you have a lot of history with dental caries, that can indicate a weak kidney or thyroid/adrenals so that the parathyroid gets wonky and so the body doesn't utilize calcium well, which brings on a lot of anxiety. Irritibility, however, usually indicates a liver problem more than kidneys. Weak kidneys will give you a weak feeling, like you can't shout or sing steadily.

Hope that helps!

[jlogan]

I have anxiety problems running in my family. I hae a horrible case of chronic anxiety and it usually takes some really high doses of sedatives to calm me down. I'm about to go start up cognitive behavior therapy to change how I react to certain situations (work being one of those).

I'm not too concerned about the crankiness and the feeling of being "socked in the kidneys" as you put it (it describes how I feel). The adrenal glands are above the kidneys, so I usually attribute all these symptoms to the fact that my poor adrenals are used to being so heavily taxed. When I first started on Zoloft, I was soooooo cranky at first. After about 2 weeks though, the crankiness turned into relaxation, which kind of supports my assumption. I do have diabetes in the family, so it is possible that I may have hidden kidney issues somewhere along the line. I do admit though that my absolute favorite snack in the world is sunflower seeds (salted), so I do binge on that once in a while.

[shelley]

Okay, yep, that all fits. So you need to keep your adrenals fed and happy and live a kidney and pancreas friendly lifestyle. Avoid NSAIDS (take tylenol instead of ibuprofen), no binges on chocolate or salt, get adequate calcium always, not just when cleansing, support the adrenals more months than not, and get adequate but not excessive salt.

You should probably take calcium without magnesium occasionally (magnesium antagonizes salt).

Silica, iron, choline, Vit E, all help the body utilize salt better. So if you think you're in danger of OD'ing on salts, or craving salts, taking these others instead can cure the cravings and set you to rights.

[jlogan]

Thank you for the advice! I will definetly try the calcium/magnesium supplementation. I am also curious to know if candida hurts the kidneys. Sometimes I will see it in my urine, and it worries me because kidneys are very sensitive to infections or inflammation of any kind. I drink a lot of cranberry juice.(Ocean Spray's Diet Cranberry Juice with low sugar and 25% juice)..I know this is good for the bladder, but I am not sure if this is good for the kidneys or not

[shelley]

candida has the potential to hurt the kidneys, yes, but it doesn't immediately do so. If it sits around and acts like an infection, then yes, any infection in the kidneys can damage them so that they age and weaken faster, so that your golden age requires dialysis sooner than it would have.