metal chelation gone bad - I really need help.

[J F]

I've had nothing but good experiences with NCD, but I don't take it every single day because anything cleansing has to be done in cycles or you get noticeable signs of fatigue as it tires your organs. So, I take it a few days in a row, then take a few days off.

[beachbuminthecountry]

Hi JF,

I have been hearing good things about this product so I became a distributor yesterday. I haven't ordered anything yet. I became a distributor just to pay the wholesale price. I plan on trying just about everything but $$$ is an issue. If you are interested in becoming a distributor or a preferred member which you get at a discount price PM me. Plus I will post my website on the other topic "the marketplace" under sources and purchase power. Give me a few minutes to post it.

[shelley]

[J F]

Thank you for the offer, beachbum, but I do already get it at a discount through the nurse practitioner I see. Besides, I only buy about one bottle every 6 months since I use such small amounts, so I doubt I'd be a good customer for anyone to sign up.

[beachbuminthecountry]

Your welcome. They do have a few other products, if you want to just check it out. How much does the nurse charge for what size bottle.

[chardy]

[shelley]

Oh I completely forgot about that! My bad! Thanks for bringing it up. I discounted the list and forgot about it because all regular foods, vits and mins were put on the list way back in the 60's. Now, only new, synthetic food additives have to be processed and screened from here on out.

One of the ways something is considered safe is if it is assumed to be safe by the wider scientific community. That's nice for beauracracy but not so safe for the buying public. That means MSG is safe but it still gives me a migraine!

Here's a link to more info about GRAS:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/grasguid.html#Q3

[beachbuminthecountry]

Just wanted to post this info from there site. It is third party safety/efficacy testing summary:

http://my.waiora.com/media/pdf/productNCDSafetyLetter.pdf

[shelley]

Good to know, but it didn't mention the sharp edges that another doctor brought up as a concern.

[beachbuminthecountry]

Was that in the link I post or did you read that some where else. Can you post where you read that. I would like to ask question to the main person so I can get you answers.

[J F]

Update on the NCD.

The last time I ordered from the nurse was about 6 months ago. Since then she has stopped using it. Because some liked it, like me, while others didn't like it at all. While they did show some good results, there were also some who felt a little sick on it, too. I bring this up because I just talked with her yesterday for the first time in awhile and asked what kind of results she was getting with it.

When I first tried it a couple of years ago, when my hormones were out of whack, I did not like the way it made me feel. When I tried it again once my hormones got into better balance, I had no ill side effects and felt perfectly fine on it. So, there is a personal component that likely affects a person's reaction to the product.

Maybe in 10 years they'll find that it causes people to grow second heads or get cancer like everything else on the market. And, as Shelley notes, there are many proven and safe alternatives that have stood the test of time which people can use. So, it's not like not using NCD will put a person at a detox disadvantage.

[shelley]

Here's a link to the doctor I read that says not to take it:

http://www.cqs.com/zeolite.htm

[beachbuminthecountry]

Hi Shelley,

Sorry I didn't answer sooner but I have been having computer problems (my computer and DSL modem got zapped in a storm 3 weeks ago). Anyway, I got a respond back from the company regarding your questions. I hope this helps.

Hi Susan

I hope this could assist you.



The Rik Deitsch response to critics

Here's a memo distributed by Rik Deitsch himself which responds to the safety concerns about NCD. Here, he's responding primarily to Jonathan Campbell. (I'm also open to printing Jonathan Campbell's rebuttal to all this if he wants to contact Truth Publishing with a response. I want readers to hear both sides on this.)

Dear Waiora Distributors,

I have just read Jonathan Campbell's website where he makes unfounded and malicious attacks on the use of natural zeolite as a dietary supplement. I would like to address his points and assure everyone that the Natural Cellular Defense is in fact a completely safe and non-toxic product that is based on a granted U.S. Patent and supported by dozens of clinical and epidemiological studies that have been published in the peer-reviewed medical literature.

As background, it's important to understand that there are more than 100 different zeolites. As an example, asbestos is a zeolite and causes cancer when inhaled as a fine powder. The zeolite used in the Natural Cellular Defense is naturally-occurring non-fibrous clinoptilolite and is considered to be extremely safe and entirely non-toxic (even when inhaled). A study published in 1993 concluded that "clinoptilolite type zeolite had no carcinogenic activity." (Tatrai E, Ungvary G. Study on carcinogenicity of clinoptilolite type zeolite in Wistar rats. Pol J Occup Med Environ Health. 1993;6(1):27-34.)

Additionally, Mr. Campbell suggests that there are no long-term animal or human toxicity studies. This is also incorrect. The zeolite in the Natural Cellular Defense has been used in water filtration, air purification, plant fertilizers and animal feed for more than thirty years in the United States. There are hundreds of published studies and articles that outline the uses and benefits of our form of zeolite in humans and animals. Not to mention that there is over 800 years of traditional use throughout India, China and Russia. It is quite obvious that Mr. Campbell could not even be bothered to do a Medline search prior to regurgitating his inaccuracies on the website. Had he done so, he would have found no fewer than 140 articles on such topics as: removing heavy metals, improving the health of animals, treating viral disorders, removing fungal toxins, remediation soil and treating cancer. This search can be accessed at the National Institutes of Health National Center for Biotechnology Information at the following link:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez (search for "clinoptilolite"



Mr. Campbell also cites a paper on carcinogenicity which incorrectly lists clinoptilolite as a fibrous zeolite similar to erionite. In a paper on the clinoptilolite's effects on animal tumors, the researchers found that:



"Electron microscopy showed the absence of fibers, and most particles were round with very rough surface. The absence of fibrous, positively charged particles was encouraging since such particles are present in asbestos and erionite zeolites, which are highly carcinogenic and mutagenic. In addition, activated zeolite particles did not catalyze the production of hydroxyl radicals, unlike asbestos or erionite. It seems that absence of fibrous particles capable of producing hydroxyl radicals makes this zeolite sample nontoxic and noncarcinogenic, at least when applied orally." (Pavelic K, et al Natural zeolite clinoptilolite: new adjuvant in anticancer therapy. J Mol Med. 2001;78(12):708-20.)



Mr. Campbell also states that there is no evidence of excretion. This too is incorrect and can be easily researched in the literature. In three separate studies specifically analyzing the ability of clinoptilolite to aid on the excretion of radioactive cesium particles, the zeolite was found to accelerate the excretion of Cs-137 from sheep's bodies. The whole effect resulted in 15 to 50 times lowering of the equilibrium concentration of the radiocaesium (Jandl J, Novosad J. [In vivo reduction of radiocesium with modified clinoptilolite in sheep] Vet Med (Praha). 1995 Aug;40(:237-41.)



Additionally, we are currently evaluating the Natural Cellular Defense in its ability to aid in the urinary excretion of heavy metals. This research is being conducted by Eno Research & Development (ERDI) in North Carolina in cooperation with Duke University staff. The study aims to quantify the type and amount of heavy metals that are excreted from patients using the product. We have already seen some promising results and expect the study to be completed in the first quarter of 2006 and we will seek publication of the data.



Mr. Campbell's next point is that he claims the clinoptilolite zeolite to be indiscriminate in what it adsorbs. This too is incorrect. There are dozens of published studies that outline the reactivity series of the zeolite, showing preference for the heavier metals and larger compounds that carry a positive charge. Many smaller compounds will move into the zeolite, but will not be trapped. These undergo simple buffering and are released back into the body. The ability of the zeolite to undergo cationic exchange has shown that there is a reproducible, quantifiable reactivity series. Additionally, several animal studies have shown that adding clinoptilolite to animal feed actually increases overall nutritional health of the animal. One study found that "clinoptilolite supplementation of the diets had no significant effect on vitamins' and minerals' uptake and their distribution in the body, since there was no alteration in their blood serum and liver/kidney concentrations." (Papaioannou DS, et al. Effect of in-feed inclusion of a natural zeolite (clinoptilolite) on certain vitamin, macro and trace element concentrations in the blood, liver and kidney tissues of sows. Res Vet Sci. 2002 Feb;72(1):61-8.)



I would also like to point out that the patent on the Natural Cellular Defense and all of the related research was conducted by biotechnology and pharmaceutical companies. This had nothing to do with zeolite mining companies as Mr. Campbell suggests.



Lastly, you should always ask why someone would take the time to write a diatribe like the one seen on Mr. Campbell's website. He answers this question himself by supplying a link to his own answer to natural cancer therapy. If you follow this link, it will lead to his offer to sell you his books, products and services. He actually charges $60 for your initial order of supplements and $20 per month thereafter just for his consulting services. He clearly states that, "Note that this charge is for the ordering service only, and does not include the cost of the supplements, which range in price between $100 and $300 per month, depending on the illness.



Always question the source of inflammatory material. Do your due diligence and review published literature from uninterested, unbiased third parties.



hope that this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Rik J. Deitsch
President, Wellness Industries
Chairman, Waiora Scientific Advisory Board

[shelley]

Interesting! Most of the points were rebutted fairly enough, so using it for 3 days out of the week should be safe enough. I'd cycle the use of it to give the kidneys a break.

[J F]

I would second what Shelley said based on my own personal experience. I was fine taking it a few days at a time and then taking a break for the rest of the week. When I'd try to go longer on it, I would show symptoms of detox overload, including finding my urine was getting irritable. Your mileage may vary.